Bankers life & Casualty Company

[mymestupworld]

undefinedundefined

I just did a bunch of things through monster.com looking for a real job/ career & I was contacted by the company "Bankers Life"

Can anyone tell me if this a job that is/isn't a scam & will pay you money in 1-7 days???? :rolleyes:


thank you

[srspds]

Hello, Bankers Life and Casualty is NOT a scam.

My husband has worked for Bankers for over 7 years and is at the top of the company, and very successful.
They are a great and very reputable company to work for, sending us on at least 2 exotic amazing trips every year and has a fabulous bonus structure.
I am not going to lie to you, its hard work, he is VERY good at what he does and that is why he is so successful. He specializes in Long Term Care.
The whole company is centered around the senior market.
Sales is not for everyone, but if you apply yourself and work hard, sales is where its at!!! There is tons of money to be made with Bankers!!

[Podunk]

I was recently contacted by Banker's Life & Casualty as well. I thought they were a nice company with some good hard working people....until I got to meet them. I went for my "group" interview where they basically gave an overview of the company and showed some flashy numbers to us. I'm not going to lie, I was pretty impressed with the amount of money there is to be made in insurance. After the group interview was over they told me they would get in touch for an individual interview that would get more in depth so I was pretty excited.

That was until I showed up and there was 2 other people waiting to go meet with the guy at the same time I was. So much for the individual interview I guess and it was another group interview in which it was more of an in depth view of the company and then a question and answer session. A few of the key questions that I asked were "Do I get reimbursed for travel expenses?" "When a person renews their plan do I make the same commission as I did the first time around?" and "What is a good expected amount of money to make my first year?".

I also had plenty of other questions for them that I also asked but these were the big ones that I remember their answers to. The first one was yes they will reimburse you for travel expenses. The second answer was yes you will make the same commission each year the person renews. And the final answer was about $40,000 my first year and then almost guarenteed to make $70,000 the next year with the renewals. This sounded great! I was really excited and again after the group interview we were told we would be contacted for an individual interview. I was indeed contacted and showed up for my interview.... and so did another person. Again, it was a group interview and not the promised individual interview.

In this interview they explained everything in greater detail and then directed us to nomoreforms.com to fill out the contract information. This is where things got really shady.

As I was reading the contract most of it was general and what you would expect to see a contract by any company. However! There were a few GLARING differences between the contract agreement and what I was told in my interviews. The contract stated that a first time comission was between 20 and 40% of the sale and the renewals was onlly 5%! That is a huge difference between making $80 on a sale of a $400 policy with a 20% comission and then only making $20 on the renewal each year. Wait a minute, didn't they say that I would make the same commsion each year as I did the first? Also, the commission decreases with the AGE of the person and the longivity of the renewals! So that means your commssion goes from 20% to 5% for a few years then to 2% and then to 1%. So why did they tell me I would make the same commission each year? And how can if I make $40,000 my first year I am almost guranteed $70,000 the next?

Anyways, I continued on reading through the contract. I got to the part about direct deposits. This section wanted your Social Security information, your Bank Account Number, and a Voided Check. Pretty normal to me. But then at the bottom of this section it states "Banker's has the right to debt AND credit your account as they see fit". Wait a minute, you mean they can pay me my commission and they say we want it back and I don't even get a say in the matter? I'm pretty sure that when you pay me it becomes my money. I'm not giving ANYONE access to my bank account no matter who it is. Once that money is given to me it is mine, if there was a problem with the deposit I will gladly clear it up, but there is no way I'm going to allow someone to just take money out of my account without my permission.

Along with Banker's claiming they have the right to debt and credit your account, they also state that they have the right to withhold your commission indefinetly and new agents have 10% of their commission withheld and put into a Banker's Life account to "help pay for things that Banker's provideds such as LEADS". So not only can they put money in my account AND take it out as they see necissary, they also don't trust me with my own money and force me to put a percentage of my earnings into an account with them to pay for leads and other charges that may possibly be made. This seemed a bit shady for me due to the fact that Banker's Life wants to be able to give and take money as they see fit and also withhold my earnings so that I will not owe the company funds for getting "hot" leads and other services they provide at a cost.

So, after all of this I was pretty skeptical but since I have friends who have worked in the insurance industry, Blue Cross and Blue Shield, State Farm, and some other auto insurance companies, I decided to speak with them and get their take on Banker's.

After speaking with them it became apparent that yes there is ALOT of money in insurance, but you have to be really good at it to make anything. They told me to expect at best, $15,000 my first year. This is coming from two people who have retired after working in the industry for 10+ years. They also told me that it seems pretty shady that the company I would be an Agent for wants to be able to debt and credit my bank account and also withhold funds. Then I asked about the renewals and they said yes that is a great way to make money, but only really after about 5 soild years of selling insurance.

This is just my experience, but I would ask the tough questions to the Banker's Life recruiter because I do believe that there is a great opportunity to make great money in insurance, just do not let them flash all those big fancy numbers in front of you and make you forget about the rest. Make sure you know that you will probobly only make $15K to $20K your first year, even though there are those people who are great salesmen and make $40K their first year, you have to ask yourself "Am I that kind of person?"

[exbankersagent]

A few things about Bankers. The numbers are very flashy but only one new agent in the state I was in made over $20,000 his first year. Bonuses are real but they are progressive, you have to make a lot in a quarter to get a nice bonus.

I saw a business ranking for 2006 and noticed that only 15% of the agents in my state made over $50,000 in submitted commissions. ANd that over 50% of the agents made less than $25,000 in commissions and that the agent departure rate was huge. I left because I couldn't live on the commissions I was making. And several agents with significant sales experience (I had none) left for the same reason. Also they don't support their new agents beyond three months. After that you have to pay for leads unless you made over $9,000 in commissions. The system works for the best agents but I couldn't survive on what I was earning. And a couple of the agents that were still there when I left had also expressed concern over the low income and were looking for other opportunities.

[TooLate4Me]

Originally Posted by srspds

Hello, Bankers Life and Casualty is NOT a scam.

My husband has worked for Bankers for over 7 years and is at the top of the company, and very successful.
They are a great and very reputable company to work for, sending us on at least 2 exotic amazing trips every year and has a fabulous bonus structure.
I am not going to lie to you, its hard work, he is VERY good at what he does and that is why he is so successful. He specializes in Long Term Care.
The whole company is centered around the senior market.
Sales is not for everyone, but if you apply yourself and work hard, sales is where its at!!! There is tons of money to be made with Bankers!!

Thanks for the insight. Can I ask you how much he's earning now after 7 years? I have a 2nd iv with them tomorrow. I have tons of sales experience, so I think I would do quite well. Also, how much did he make his first year? If you read the other posts, they're saying $15-20K! Thanks for any information!

[Podunk]

I can tell you that in your second interview they will throw more very impressive numbers at you and tell you about their bonus program. They will also have you go over more paper work and stuff like that. Just be wary that these numbers are obtainable.....but only by a select few. Yes there are very successful people in sales, but to be honest you will not be happy with the money you are earning for the first few years. If you stick with it and are good at it, in about 4 or 5 years you will be earning $40,000. But only if you are good at it.

[TheWholeTruth]

Originally Posted by exbankersagent

A few things about Bankers. The numbers are very flashy but only one new agent in the state I was in made over $20,000 his first year. Bonuses are real but they are progressive, you have to make a lot in a quarter to get a nice bonus.

Only one new agent made over $20,000? Only ONE made more than POVERTY LINE income?

Originally Posted by exbankersagent

I saw a business ranking for 2006 and noticed that only 15% of the agents in my state made over $50,000 in submitted commissions. ANd that over 50% of the agents made less than $25,000 in commissions and that the agent departure rate was huge. I left because I couldn't live on the commissions I was making. And several agents with significant sales experience (I had none) left for the same reason. Also they don't support their new agents beyond three months. After that you have to pay for leads unless you made over $9,000 in commissions. The system works for the best agents but I couldn't survive on what I was earning. And a couple of the agents that were still there when I left had also expressed concern over the low income and were looking for other opportunities.

This is bothersome. This REEKS of MLM (multi-level marketing) what with the "flashy numbers" and the "big promises" and the "group interviews."

My personal view on MLM companies? Stay away!

[TheWholeTruth]

THREE TIMES, on this forum, pro-MLMers have agreed with me that 95-98% of people who join MLMs "fail" at the opportunity. (Go ahead and check all my posts to confirm this. It's true. They agreed with this statistic.)

Do any of you really want to invest money into an "opportunity" that has an 95-98% chance of failure?

This is what always baffles me about pro-MLMers. They'll actually AGREE their company has a MASSIVE "failure rate" and yet they still expect people to believe multi-level marketing (also known as network marketing) is a "wonderful opportunity." They want people to believe that, if 98% of people "fail" at this opportunity, then it must be 98% of the peoples' faults - not a problem with the so-called "opportunity" itself.

Give me a break!

Here's a good rebuttal to that........better than any rebuttal I could ever give you:


http://www.armydiller.com/financial-scam/failure.htm

It is a copout to put the full blame for failure on this 80-95% who throw in the towel at scammer firms given the odds against them, yet that is exactly what happens. Furthermore, it serves a purpose.

At the scammer firm, success is always just "around the corner." Scammers convince the rep that he's one of the "elite" who can make it and pound into him that it's his fault when he can't. Lures of cash bonuses and trips are dangled, constant "you-can-do-it" rah-rah meetings are mandatory, and reps are told that quitters just "didn't have what it takes" (unlike you who are sticking it out!) or "violated major securities laws and were fired" (but we know you wouldn't do such a thing!). A real cult mentality of false hope develops among reps who buy into this reasoning. This is an actual quote* from a rep:

"[XXXX] is a great company and yes just like anything else it's hard to make $100,000 a year. But if your [sic] willing to put in the work it's just almost guaranteed that you will make it... if you are willing to do what I've done you will have the same results, if not than [sic] quit like everyone else quits everything they do and be bitter. But don't bad mouth a great company because you don't have what it takes to win."

I have little doubt that that rep was gone within 2 years and never pulled $100K. This quote* is my favorite and pretty much sums it up:

"Can you tell a 21 year old [...] who makes $50,000 a year with [XXXX] a loser? I know I am but what are you?"

Yeah, right!

It's all designed to instill in the quitter an unreasonable sense of failure. Why? If the quitter feels responsible for his failure, he won't place the blame where it belongs and sue the firm. After all, he's been purposely deceived! Guilt and shame are instrumental in avoiding lawsuits at this point.

[TheWholeTruth]

Originally Posted by Podunk

I was recently contacted by Banker's Life & Casualty as well. I thought they were a nice company with some good hard working people....until I got to meet them. I went for my "group" interview where they basically gave an overview of the company and showed some flashy numbers to us. I'm not going to lie, I was pretty impressed with the amount of money there is to be made in insurance. After the group interview was over they told me they would get in touch for an individual interview that would get more in depth so I was pretty excited.

That was until I showed up and there was 2 other people waiting to go meet with the guy at the same time I was. So much for the individual interview I guess and it was another group interview in which it was more of an in depth view of the company and then a question and answer session. A few of the key questions that I asked were "Do I get reimbursed for travel expenses?" "When a person renews their plan do I make the same commission as I did the first time around?" and "What is a good expected amount of money to make my first year?".

I also had plenty of other questions for them that I also asked but these were the big ones that I remember their answers to. The first one was yes they will reimburse you for travel expenses. The second answer was yes you will make the same commission each year the person renews. And the final answer was about $40,000 my first year and then almost guarenteed to make $70,000 the next year with the renewals. This sounded great! I was really excited and again after the group interview we were told we would be contacted for an individual interview. I was indeed contacted and showed up for my interview.... and so did another person. Again, it was a group interview and not the promised individual interview.

In this interview they explained everything in greater detail and then directed us to nomoreforms.com to fill out the contract information. This is where things got really shady.

As I was reading the contract most of it was general and what you would expect to see a contract by any company. However! There were a few GLARING differences between the contract agreement and what I was told in my interviews. The contract stated that a first time comission was between 20 and 40% of the sale and the renewals was onlly 5%! That is a huge difference between making $80 on a sale of a $400 policy with a 20% comission and then only making $20 on the renewal each year. Wait a minute, didn't they say that I would make the same commsion each year as I did the first? Also, the commission decreases with the AGE of the person and the longivity of the renewals! So that means your commssion goes from 20% to 5% for a few years then to 2% and then to 1%. So why did they tell me I would make the same commission each year? And how can if I make $40,000 my first year I am almost guranteed $70,000 the next?

Anyways, I continued on reading through the contract. I got to the part about direct deposits. This section wanted your Social Security information, your Bank Account Number, and a Voided Check. Pretty normal to me. But then at the bottom of this section it states "Banker's has the right to debt AND credit your account as they see fit". Wait a minute, you mean they can pay me my commission and they say we want it back and I don't even get a say in the matter? I'm pretty sure that when you pay me it becomes my money. I'm not giving ANYONE access to my bank account no matter who it is. Once that money is given to me it is mine, if there was a problem with the deposit I will gladly clear it up, but there is no way I'm going to allow someone to just take money out of my account without my permission.

Along with Banker's claiming they have the right to debt and credit your account, they also state that they have the right to withhold your commission indefinetly and new agents have 10% of their commission withheld and put into a Banker's Life account to "help pay for things that Banker's provideds such as LEADS". So not only can they put money in my account AND take it out as they see necissary, they also don't trust me with my own money and force me to put a percentage of my earnings into an account with them to pay for leads and other charges that may possibly be made. This seemed a bit shady for me due to the fact that Banker's Life wants to be able to give and take money as they see fit and also withhold my earnings so that I will not owe the company funds for getting "hot" leads and other services they provide at a cost.

So, after all of this I was pretty skeptical but since I have friends who have worked in the insurance industry, Blue Cross and Blue Shield, State Farm, and some other auto insurance companies, I decided to speak with them and get their take on Banker's.

After speaking with them it became apparent that yes there is ALOT of money in insurance, but you have to be really good at it to make anything. They told me to expect at best, $15,000 my first year. This is coming from two people who have retired after working in the industry for 10+ years. They also told me that it seems pretty shady that the company I would be an Agent for wants to be able to debt and credit my bank account and also withhold funds. Then I asked about the renewals and they said yes that is a great way to make money, but only really after about 5 soild years of selling insurance.

This is just my experience, but I would ask the tough questions to the Banker's Life recruiter because I do believe that there is a great opportunity to make great money in insurance, just do not let them flash all those big fancy numbers in front of you and make you forget about the rest. Make sure you know that you will probobly only make $15K to $20K your first year, even though there are those people who are great salesmen and make $40K their first year, you have to ask yourself "Am I that kind of person?"

Wow, that sounds shady! Thank goodness you asked the questions you asked, read the contract carefully, and listened to your gut instinct! And it's a good thing you posted your experience on here, too. It will help many other people.

I have a question for you? Does this company also expect you to recruit other people below you? If so, then it is DEFINITELY an MLM (multi-level marketing) scheme and people should shy away from it.

[TooLate4Me]

Originally Posted by Podunk

I can tell you that in your second interview they will throw more very impressive numbers at you and tell you about their bonus program. They will also have you go over more paper work and stuff like that. Just be wary that these numbers are obtainable.....but only by a select few. Yes there are very successful people in sales, but to be honest you will not be happy with the money you are earning for the first few years. If you stick with it and are good at it, in about 4 or 5 years you will be earning $40,000. But only if you are good at it.

How can one become a USM within 11 months? Is this even possible in your opinion? What about looking at actual paystubs?

And, I have no idea what "the whole truth" is talking about when he/she says "MLM/Pyramid"...they've never mentioned anything like that ever. Slightly confused here.

Yes, I'm well aware that people lie to you in iv's regarding money...in fact, I expect it. Allegedly there is one lady who is making $330,000 within 3 yrs. with them. In my opinion, most people are of average intelligence and have a very average work ethic...I'm not afraid to bust my ass and work long hours for the right ROI, however, most are not. I'm trying to ascertain at this point if this is a decent company. I'm hearing mixed reviews.

[srspds]

Hey I am sorry I have not replied sooner, I have not been back on this site for a while and just realized that TooLateForME asked me a question a while back about how much my husband is making with Bankers Life after 7 years.
I am a little bit amazed at the comments following mine about how those of you that had negative experiences with bankers all of sudden decided that it was a shady company, probably because you realized that you wouldnt be capable of doing it, so you decided to knock the company down and say that they are full of crap.
My husband, after 7 years is now making over $150,000 a year, made $30,000 the first year, and jumped up by $30,000 every pretty much every year after that. Now at 7 years loyalty to the company, he is no vested, and we have our retirement in place. He does recieve some UNREAL bonuses, and the trips they send us on are absolutely amazing.
Bankers is not shady, yes, sales is not for everyone, my husband has been at the top of his office since he started. He had ZERO sales experience when he started, he was a carpenter for 15 years before that. He is now pretty much the "super star" of his office, and has kept that position since he started. In the time he has been there he sees literally hundreds of people going in and out of that office every year, because people go in expecting it to be easy and when it seems to get a little tough, they just quit.
It takes drive and dedication, but it does pay off if you are with a great company that rewards you WELL for your hard work.
It all depends on how bad you want it. He loves his job, and the company that he works for.

[TheWholeTruth]

Originally Posted by srspds

.......I am a little bit amazed at the comments following mine about how those of you that had negative experiences with bankers all of sudden decided that it was a shady company, probably because you realized that you wouldnt be capable of doing it, so you decided to knock the company down and say that they are full of crap......

First and foremost, I want to apologize for assuming Bankers Life was another MLM company. I've read through all the posts again, and there doesn't appear to be anything in here about recruiting, so it's clearly not MLM.

That being said, I still think it's shady that "Banker's has the right to debit AND credit your account as they see fit," and it worries me that the written contract said something totally different than what Podunk had been told verbally. Those two things raise a lot of red flags for me.

Other than that, this seems legit to me. If you read that contract thoroughly, and you agree with all of it, and you have some kind of buffer (perhaps a spouse who is earning a second income) to help you out during those first couple of years, then this opportunity could be viable for you.

....Just stay away from the companies who want you to recruit other people. That's my two cents.

[Podunk]

No, Banker's Life does not appaer to be a MLM in any fashion. And you are definetly correct srspds, I couldn't do it because I have much more self respect for myself than to try to sell insurance to the elderly from a second rate company that is very deceitful. And yes, they are a second rate company when compared to other insurance companies.

I just don't understand how a company can be a good company when they blatantly lie to their recruits because they know that if they tell the truth that no one would sign up to work for them. Yes, they lied, read my original post it details it.

And as for the hundreds of people going in and out of the office who quit because it is not as easy as they thought.... WELL THAT IS WHAT THEY WERE TOLD! They were promised that on a COMMISSION BASED PAY SCALE they would make $30,000 their first year as long as they stuck it out that within a couple years they would be making hundreds of thousands of dollars when that is the furthest thing from the truth. The company promises that to their recruits. Just stick it out and you will make a ton of money. Give me a break.

Now go ahead and call the quitters lazy and say that they just don't have the work ethic or that they are just not as intelligent as the people who "stick it out". I don't even know what to say to you if that is honestly what you believe. You apparently have never been in the real world where there are millions of people working their hearts out at jobs they love and/or hate. But by God in your opinion if you can't make it in insurance sales you are just dumb and lazy. You are a seriously misguided person.
I'm sure there are people that make a ton of money and that is great that your husband is cruising in the insurance business. But tell me this, how much do the other agents earn on average? The office I went to had ONE person making a ton of money while everyone else was making $25,000 to $40,000. Yes, it is great to be at the top of the heap because you reap all the benefits. But honestly, how much do the other agents make? I mean I could show you flashy numbers from the CEO of GE and show you that they make millions of dollars a year...but what about the people on the assembly line? They don't make millions of dollars but they bust their asses for a minimal pay.

[TheWholeTruth]

Any company that has such a high turnover rate is a questionable company in my mind. There were red flags going up all over the place when I read Podunk's post because it sounded so similar to an MLM. Everything is the same excluding recruiting.

At the end of the day, I agree with Podunk that it's the company's blatant lies that cause 95% of the people to quit their jobs at shady firms. The problem certainly isn't 95% of the people ALL being too lazy. When that many people are quitting, it's the company's fault - not the individuals.

[TooLate4Me]

Hey, thanks everyone for your replies. I appreciate the different views.

[Podunk]

I would definetly say to stay away from Banker's Life. It is a bad company with very decietful recruiting tactics. When ever a company has hundereds of people join and leave an office within a year across the nation there is something wrong with it. I can't think of too many companies that are legit that would allow 95% of newly hired employees to quit within a year....especially when they are promising a ton of money to those who just "stick it out".

Take your time, your effort, and more importantly your money somewhere else and get a job for a company that is truthful. I wouldn't even waste your time to get interview experience with this company. As long as you have a car, have a license, are not a criminal, and can speak english they will tell you how much they like you and want you to work for them. You'd get better advice from your family than from these liars.

[TooLate4Me]

Originally Posted by Podunk

I would definetly say to stay away from Banker's Life. It is a bad company with very decietful recruiting tactics. When ever a company has hundereds of people join and leave an office within a year across the nation there is something wrong with it. I can't think of too many companies that are legit that would allow 95% of newly hired employees to quit within a year....especially when they are promising a ton of money to those who just "stick it out".

Take your time, your effort, and more importantly your money somewhere else and get a job for a company that is truthful. I wouldn't even waste your time to get interview experience with this company. As long as you have a car, have a license, are not a criminal, and can speak english they will tell you how much they like you and want you to work for them. You'd get better advice from your family than from these liars.

Podunk,

Where are you located if you don't mind me asking? The person who would be mentoring me came from an Ivy League school and has done quite well with them. I passed the 4th iv w/them with flying colors and a high success ratio on my first 50 calls. The caliber of individuals iv'ing there have been good. It is a 1099 position, not an employee. Anything else you'd care to share with me regarding them would be appreciated. Thanks and have a nice evening!

[TheWholeTruth]

Originally Posted by TooLate4Me

......It is a 1099 position, not an employee. Anything else you'd care to share with me regarding them would be appreciated. Thanks and have a nice evening!

You might be interested in reading the below website since you're considering becoming a 1099 for an insurance company. I'm cutting and pasting a portion about "independent contractors" in here to show you (and other potential agents) why being categorized as an independent contractor isn't always such a positive thing:

^^^^^^^^

http://www.armydiller.com/financial-scam/ic.htm

"Independent contractor?"

Scammer firms often illegally hire their reps as "independent contractors," which in essence means that those reps are (unwittingly) running their own businesses -- paying for their own training, advertising, marketing, insurance, all business expenses, taxes, etc. Note how I emphasized taxes? The inexperienced rep (and most are, remember) may not realize the real cost of "owning his own business" until he suddenly owes a hefty chunk of his meager first-year income to the IRS!

But is it really his own business?

NO, it is not. Scammers attempt to mislead the "independent contractor" into believing he's working for (or has even bought) a franchise......

.....The last and perhaps most important reason for misclassifying employees as ICs involves legal liability. Many firms simply feign ignorance of a "rogue" rep's "misconduct" when a consumer brings a lawsuit or a regulatory agency brings an action, even when they explicitly (but verbally!) encouraged the often-ignorant rep to break the law. The FTC has this to say about independent contractors involved in direct sales organizations:

If you decide to become a [salesperson], remember that you're legally responsible for the claims you make about the company, its product and the business opportunities it offers. [...] When you promote the qualities of a product or service, you're obligated to present those claims truthfully and to ensure there's enough solid evidence to back them up. The Federal Trade Commission advises you to verify the research behind any claims about a product's performance before repeating those claims to a potential customer. Likewise, if you decide to solicit new [salespeople], be aware that you're responsible for any claims you make about a [salesperson]'s earnings potential. [...] If those promises fall through, remember that you could be held liable.

Did you get that? As an independent contractor, you are responsible for doing the firm's homework and ensuring that its claims about the itself and its products, services, and opportunities are true! An independent contractor's own ignorance in simply repeating what he's been told could earn him fines and jail or prison time while the firm pleads ignorance of his "unapproved illegal activities" and gets off with a slap on the wrist, if that.

^^^^^^^^

[TooLate4Me]

Originally Posted by TheWholeTruth

You might be interested in reading the below website since you're considering becoming a 1099 for an insurance company. I'm cutting and pasting a portion about "independent contractors" in here to show you (and other potential agents) why being categorized as an independent contractor isn't always such a positive thing:

^^^^^^^^

http://www.armydiller.com/financial-scam/ic.htm

"Independent contractor?"

Scammer firms often illegally hire their reps as "independent contractors," which in essence means that those reps are (unwittingly) running their own businesses -- paying for their own training, advertising, marketing, insurance, all business expenses, taxes, etc. Note how I emphasized taxes? The inexperienced rep (and most are, remember) may not realize the real cost of "owning his own business" until he suddenly owes a hefty chunk of his meager first-year income to the IRS!

But is it really his own business?

NO, it is not. Scammers attempt to mislead the "independent contractor" into believing he's working for (or has even bought) a franchise......

.....The last and perhaps most important reason for misclassifying employees as ICs involves legal liability. Many firms simply feign ignorance of a "rogue" rep's "misconduct" when a consumer brings a lawsuit or a regulatory agency brings an action, even when they explicitly (but verbally!) encouraged the often-ignorant rep to break the law. The FTC has this to say about independent contractors involved in direct sales organizations:

If you decide to become a [salesperson], remember that you're legally responsible for the claims you make about the company, its product and the business opportunities it offers. [...] When you promote the qualities of a product or service, you're obligated to present those claims truthfully and to ensure there's enough solid evidence to back them up. The Federal Trade Commission advises you to verify the research behind any claims about a product's performance before repeating those claims to a potential customer. Likewise, if you decide to solicit new [salespeople], be aware that you're responsible for any claims you make about a [salesperson]'s earnings potential. [...] If those promises fall through, remember that you could be held liable.

Did you get that? As an independent contractor, you are responsible for doing the firm's homework and ensuring that its claims about the itself and its products, services, and opportunities are true! An independent contractor's own ignorance in simply repeating what he's been told could earn him fines and jail or prison time while the firm pleads ignorance of his "unapproved illegal activities" and gets off with a slap on the wrist, if that.

^^^^^^^^

Thanks for the post. I'm a little confused...aren't a lot of agents IC's???

[Podunk]

I come from the Southeast...not going to get too specific because I do not beleive it is necissary. Anyways I'm glad to hear that you have had a good success ratio on your first few calls. I hope it works out for you.

I personally would not take on this type of venture due to many reasons that I have listed before.

I can say that Banker's Life is not the best company and is rated below most of the others in the market. This is based on some accounting figures that I really don't know much about. I just know they are not rated an "A" company financially and from people I know who work in insurance they are not the best company for LTC or Health. Although that is just an opinion of a few people that I know.

My advice to you would be to keep up the good work. If insurance sales are for you then you will do great. I would reccomened, since you are an IC, to seek out a better company to work for after you get the experience you need. Or better yet, just become an insurance salesmen for many different companies! Once you have your license, you can sell anyones policy and once you have your referrals coming in you can refer them to any policy out there. Of course it takes more than just saying hey company A offers this and company B offers this....but that would be my advice.


And yes, most agents are IC's and most good agents start with a single company and then move on. If this is the job for you good luck and you'll do great!

[TheWholeTruth]

Originally Posted by TooLate4Me

Thanks for the post. I'm a little confused...aren't a lot of agents IC's???

Originally Posted by Podunk

.....And yes, most agents are IC's and most good agents start with a single company and then move on. If this is the job for you good luck and you'll do great!

Yes, most insurance agents are listed as Independent Contractors; however, this is not always to their advantage. Make sure you understand the true ramifications of being categorized as an IC before you sign anything.

Here's one bit of advice for you: if a company has expectations of its staff - such as they should attend MANDATORY meetings, or they should work a MANDATORY amount of hours, or they are CAPTIVE agents - then the company is treating them like employees and should therefore be paying them the same benefits that all employees are entitled to.

Please refer again to this website http://www.armydiller.com/financial-scam/ic.htm for more information:

The IRS guidelines on determining whether a rep is an employee or independent contractor are listed below (Source #1, Source #2). You are more than likely an employee if:

1. You don't have a business license.

2. The firm provides your training. (Contractors typically do not receive training by the hiring firm; they start "fully hatched".)

3. The firm's success or continuation depends on the service you provide. (Contractors should not perform work that determines the success or continuation of the hiring firm.)

4. The firm maintains a continued relation with you and does not hire you on a per-project basis. (Contractors are hired per project and bill for their services.)

5. The firm requires you to provide reports of your performance. (Contractors are hired to produce a final result, and therefore should not be required to submit interim reports.)

6. The firm requires you to perform your services for only itself and not other firms. (Contractors should not be restricted from seeking and performing other gainful work, even within the same industry.)

7. The firm exercises control over you through the threat of dismissal, which causes you to obey the employer's instructions. (An independent contractor cannot be fired so long as the independent contractor produces a result that meets the contract specifications.)

8. The firm exercises control over how your work gets done (insists you use THEIR system for generating leads or income such as the “friends & family” list) and supplies tools (phones, desks, marketing materials, etc.) for the performance of your work. (Contractors are responsible for the completed job but have full control over the means.)

If you think you've been misclassified as an IC to your disadvantage, contest it.

[srspds]

All these silly comments coming from those that have never worked in the business or for the company nor have they been and have clearly stated that they dont have it in them to be successful at it.
Clearly the insurance business is an intimidating and confusing business for most, and those that claim to know it all, obviously have not done their homework, and whatever homework they did do, they didnt understand it anyways.
Most people that cant humbly admit they "dont have it in them" usually end up blaming the company for their failures.
The only reason you would like to say that they lie is because all they are doing is stating your possible potential, it is your job to create that for yourself, DUHHHH, they arent just going to drop it in your lap. If it didnt happen, its because YOU didnt create it. Those that far exceed the promises that were given at recruiting, will certainly have a different opinion.
So thank you for your opinion, thank you for clearly letting us all know that obviously you dont have what it takes. Thats ok.............I am sure bankers is not heart broken either.
Guess thats why we didnt see you in Puerto Rico last month. :p

[TooLate4Me]

Originally Posted by srspds

All these silly comments coming from those that have never worked in the business or for the company nor have they been and have clearly stated that they dont have it in them to be successful at it.
Clearly the insurance business is an intimidating and confusing business for most, and those that claim to know it all, obviously have not done their homework, and whatever homework they did do, they didnt understand it anyways.
Most people that cant humbly admit they "dont have it in them" usually end up blaming the company for their failures.
The only reason you would like to say that they lie is because all they are doing is stating your possible potential, it is your job to create that for yourself, DUHHHH, they arent just going to drop it in your lap. If it didnt happen, its because YOU didnt create it. Those that far exceed the promises that were given at recruiting, will certainly have a different opinion.
So thank you for your opinion, thank you for clearly letting us all know that obviously you dont have what it takes. Thats ok.............I am sure bankers is not heart broken either.
Guess thats why we didnt see you in Puerto Rico last month. :p

As I stated earlier...MOST people don't have it in them IQ-wise nor work ethic-wise. It is hard work and one must be intrinsically motivated b/c you only have yourself to hold you accountable. It is not for everyone...but, if you're sharp and want to work hard, you can make good money.

[Podunk]

srspds, are you really expecting anyone to take you seriously on this board? I mean you have one of those "Get Rich Quick" schemes in your signature. "WORK FROM HOME!" "GET PAID TO READ e-MAILS!" HAHAHAHA...you are a trip.

Give me a break, you are right...I didn't have it in me to work at Bankers.... I don't have it in me to sell second rate insurance to the elderly from a company that allows 90% of their recruits to quit because it dosen't mean anything to them. I couldn't allow myself to work for a company that lies to recruits, lies to "employees", and probobly lies to clients. And you are right, it must be nice in Puerto Rico and your husband must do a great job at lieing to the new recruits so that he can steal their money, time, and effort and make bank.

So srspds you can go shove your narrow minded, delusional allegiance, and your lieing husband someplace where the sun rarely shines.

And you know what, I believe that this "woman" is probobly someone at Bankers who scourers the internet message boards for people like me who tell the truth about deceitful companies and try to defend it.

YOU HAVE NOT COUNTERED ONE THING I HAVE SAID ABOUT BANKERS!

All you have said is "Those who quit are stupid and don't work hard enough". Then why is it that you have completely avoided answering, or explaining, all the questions and examples that I have given as to why this company is a piece of crap. Please, do explain unless you are too busy living it up while your husband rips good people off.

[TheWholeTruth]

Originally Posted by Podunk

.....YOU HAVE NOT COUNTERED ONE THING I HAVE SAID ABOUT BANKERS!.....

It's obvious why, isn't it? Srspds hasn't countered the truth for one simple reason - because she CAN'T. She can't argue with the high turnover rate that you've revealed on this thread. She also can't argue the information I posted about why it's not beneficial to be categorized as an independent contractor when you're a captive agent. So, she reduces herself to insulting us, instead. That's the best she can come up with.

Srspds....has it ever occurred to you that, sometimes, what you DON'T say is just as damning as what others DO say about your company? This is one of those times.

[TooLate4Me]

Okay, what do you guys say about the different offices of Bankers??? Not every office is run the same way in all parts of the country. I know of one office that almost shut down due to bad management, but has completely turned around with good management in place. Doesn't this make a difference in how one is recruited?? I would like to hear more from you...good or bad. Thanks again for your comments.

[TheWholeTruth]

Originally Posted by TooLate4Me

Okay, what do you guys say about the different offices of Bankers??? Not every office is run the same way in all parts of the country. I know of one office that almost shut down due to bad management, but has completely turned around with good management in place. Doesn't this make a difference in how one is recruited?? I would like to hear more from you...good or bad. Thanks again for your comments.

There is a little truth to your statement, yes. Not all managers are good managers.

That being said, I've seen this same excuse used by companies like Altig International / American Income Life: "Not every office is run the same way in all parts of the country....they all recruit differently...." And I call bull**** on that one!

The branch-level managers are not the ones making the recruiting decisions for this company. Rather, it's the executives above them. Those top executives make umbrella decisions for the entire company - for every single branch.

Pro-Altig/A.I.L. agents like to say that each office is a franchise, so when you become an agent, it's like you're buying into your own franchise. I call bull**** on that one, too. For a couple reasons.....

1. If it was a franchise opportunity, then they wouldn't treat their "franchisees" like employees (see my previous post on the differences between employees and independent contractors).

2. If it was a franchise opportunity, the franchisor would expect that each franchisee run their branch in exactly the same manner (i.e. every single McDonalds or Tim Hortons has to have the same menu, the same quality product/service) and that franchisor would not tolerate anything less.

So, based on my experience with companies like this, the high turnover rate is not symptomatic of problems with just one manager or one office. Nine times out of ten, it starts higher up than that - with the executive leadership - and the problem, in turn, permeates EVERY office.

[movingpicture]

I'm only 16 and they contacted me. I just canceled my interview.

[TooLate4Me]

Originally Posted by Podunk

I come from the Southeast...not going to get too specific because I do not beleive it is necissary. Anyways I'm glad to hear that you have had a good success ratio on your first few calls. I hope it works out for you.

I personally would not take on this type of venture due to many reasons that I have listed before.

I can say that Banker's Life is not the best company and is rated below most of the others in the market. This is based on some accounting figures that I really don't know much about. I just know they are not rated an "A" company financially and from people I know who work in insurance they are not the best company for LTC or Health. Although that is just an opinion of a few people that I know.

My advice to you would be to keep up the good work. If insurance sales are for you then you will do great. I would reccomened, since you are an IC, to seek out a better company to work for after you get the experience you need. Or better yet, just become an insurance salesmen for many different companies! Once you have your license, you can sell anyones policy and once you have your referrals coming in you can refer them to any policy out there. Of course it takes more than just saying hey company A offers this and company B offers this....but that would be my advice.


And yes, most agents are IC's and most good agents start with a single company and then move on. If this is the job for you good luck and you'll do great!

Thanks for your input...have a nice day!

[GeneralTsoGood]

insurance is the worst industry to be in....screwing people out of their money so you can earn more commision can be lucrative yes, but its not worth it.

[bogie]

Originally Posted by GeneralTsoGood

insurance is the worst industry to be in....screwing people out of their money so you can earn more commision can be lucrative yes, but its not worth it.

For the most part I agree but having been in the business now for about three years, I've seen some of the best and the worst in this industry of necessary evil. I got into the business when it became obviious that my professional pilot carreer would be coming to an end. I'd been an insurance consumer for all types of insurance, auto, home, aircraft, boats, medical, life, you name it. Most of it I bought because I had no choice. Either the law or a bank required it. I always shopped around as best I could and I must say that I made some pretty good decisions from the choices that were out there.

Now I've worked for some of the worst and have learned much about how the industry works and I don't much care for what I see. I now work for AAA selling insurance and although I still do my best to stay in the closet about what I do when I meet new people, I can say that AAA does a pretty good job in a very troubled industry. I'm sure that there are many horror stories to go along with the good about the company but if you do have to have certain types of insurance, and we all do, there are some companies that do stand above the rest. I try to think of my new job as an oportunity to change the image of how the people I come in contact with view the industry. I'm on part salary, part commission and part bonus. And I've found that I can be quite successful by keeping the client's needs and desires formost in my mind. By not chasing commisions, I now work many many referrals.

[michelew]

Thinking about becoming a Bankers Agent - BEWARE. When you go into the Branch Sales Offices for your interview, where are all the Veteran agents? They have NONE. This company is nothing but a MLM/Ponzi scheme. They have absolutely NOTHING to offer you unless you pay for it. One office in general on the west coast has gone through more agents in the past year than illegal aliens have crossed the border. This is a very poorly managed company. They claim to specialize in the needs of seniors, but they're actually raping the poor seniors from their savings! They provide long term care insurance which has been so poorly managed that the company has increased premiums on all existing policy holders across the United States - between 25 to 35%. Just do a Google Search on Bankers Life and Casualty - you will see that there are many litigations regarding claims which are not being paid. This company has been through 5 Presidents in the past 7 years. Take a look at the compensation statement. What are you entitled to after 10 years of service should you decide to retire? Only 5% of your first 5 years commission. What are you entitled to after 15 years of service...the same? What about after 20 years of service...the same...that's only 5% of your first 5 year commissions. Believe me, after 20 to 25 years of service, your first 5 years of policy holders have more than likely passed away - especially in the senior market. This company has absolutely no future to offer you. It's all false promises from individuals who are trained in selling a pyramid scheme. This company has more fat in their management in it than one would care to chew. Branch sales managers - better than 70% of them have been replaced in the past 2 to 3 years. Truly this is a company that has no clue what direction they're going. Turn and run away - look another direction. Definitely not a good company to start an insurance career. Average lifespan of a Bankers agent is less than two years. That's a lot of blood, sweat and tears for nothing!

[Podunk]

So lets recap:

Bankers dosen't trust their agents with their own money nor do they trust themselves to be able to make accurate direct deposits into accounts.

Bankers accepts the fact that 90% of the people who work for them will fail and the average lifespan of an agent is 2 years.

Bankers offers LTC and Health to seniors (65+) and want generally younger people selling their insurance (18-25).

Bankers recruting tactics are extremly decitful and contridict everything that is written in the contract.

Bankers expects you to be hired as a 1099(Independant Contractor) but act like an employee.

Bankers expects their 1099's to pay for their leads.

Bankers expects their 1099's to only work for them selling their insurance.

Bankers dosen't want people to retire from them and recieve payments for their years of serivce.

Bankers expects to lure you into their lucrative bonus program.

[roi65]

I did not intend on posting any reply when I came to this site, but am completely boggled by the messages posted here. I have been in sales most of my adult life (I am in my 40's). Much of this time has been in insurance sales.

First of all, with any company I have ever worked for I have been an independent contractor, which I believe is normal in this business.

Second, yes you have to be committed and work hard. Not every person is going to make it, but that doesn't necessarily reflect on the company. Bankers has many different offices which are going to employ many different people with many different experiences. As with any type of sales the turn over rate is going to be higher than in a salaried or hourly position.

Also, I would like to know how "The Whole Truth" comes up with the MLM idea and what exactly do you do for a living anyway? This company is definitely not an MLM.

As far as the renewal commission, I have to believe there was a huge misunderstanding there. Why would anyone believe that you are going to continue getting the same commission as your initial commission just for a renewal? And I believe the person who stated this also stated they have friends who have been in this business? Why don't they know this then? And for this same person who's friends quoted the income level of 15K the first year, where in the world are they working? I am employed by a company other than Bankers at this time and made 10K my first six weeks.

With all that being said, I really am not trying to slam anyone or the remarks made here. But, I do believe that people need to do more research than take the word of, what sounds like, a few disgruntled employees. No, this isn't for everyone, but if you are a hard worker with a positive attitude and the drive to succeed you can do it, but don't let others convince you otherwise.

[deskjockey]

OK, I hope to be the voice of reason in this debate. I will state right out of the gate that I do work for Bankers Life, but I will try to be as unbiased as possible. I realize (as should any sane person), that there are plusses and minuses to any job, and I hope most people can realize this and look and both with an open mind when they are considering any job. I'm going to address some of the concerns people have had first:

1. The direct deposit issue: Bankers can credit or debit your account because of chargebacks. If you get a policy issued and the customer cancels it a couple months down the road, you are obviously going to get a chargeback for the commission paid to you. If you do not pay the company back the money due to them for the commission charged back, they are going to get it back from you one way or another.

2. Turnover: It's high in the insurance industry as a whole. Some people make it and some don't. It's really no different than any other type of sales job. Anyone who gets into any type of sales career and doesn't expect to see a high turnover is kidding himself. Could they do more to keep agents on? Absolutely. So could any company, but it's not always the company's fault that a person quits.

3. "Bankers offers LTC and Health to seniors (65+) and want generally younger people selling their insurance (18-25).": Not true on the second part of this sentence. I'm sure each office is different, but our office tries to recruit "older" (read: not recent college grads) agents because they relate better to seniors. It's tough to be 23 and try to sell insurance to a 70 year old because they simply don't trust you due to your age, no matter how much you know. Do we have recent college grads working here? Absolutely, but they chose to come on board. They received the same offer as the 30, 40, or 50 year old that interviewed here.

4. Recruiting: It is NOT done on a corporate level. Each branch recruits in its own way. We have a *****Point presentation for our group interview created by our Home Office that each branch uses, but other than that, each branch recruits in its own way. Most of it is done through internet sites like Monster and Career Builder. I can't speak for the recruiting tactics of other branches, but we have one group briefing per week, and from then on it is solely individual intervies. Some people don't even go through the group interview if they don't want to. You will never come to more than ONE group interview in our office. Group interviews are done because it weeds out the people who are not interested in the job once they hear all the details about it. We can have a group interview with 20 people, and if 13 of them aren't interested, that is 13+ hours we didn't have to waste on individual interviews. The group interviews are done to find those who are really interested in the position. As for being lied to about renewal commission or anything in general, that is the fault of that individual interviewer. It is not a company practice. I'm sure some do it. Fact is, you can be lied to in an interview for any job with any company.

5. 1099/IC issue: Yes, you are an independent contractor. So are almost all insurance agents. This weeds out slackers. If the company paid agents a salary and provided health and 401(k) benefits, there would be people that sat around and sold one policy a month and just lived off the salary and took advantage of the benefits. I don't see why the IC status is even an issue since it's the same throughout much of the industry. Yes, the self-employment tax sucks, but that's an IRS issue, not a Bankers issue.

6. Paying for leads: Not in our office. Don't know about other ones. Our system works like this: once an agent passes his three month probationary period, he contributes 5% of each paycheck to an account that he can use for leads, marketing, seminars, mailers, etc. It is the agent's money and is matched by the branch provided the branch manager approves your marketing idea. It is there so agents don't get complacent with leads from mass mailings or cold calls, and branch out to more productive prospecting techniques like seminars, targeted mailers, etc. It is mandatory, and some agents never (or rarely) use it, but you can't fault the company if the agent chooses not to use something he knows is there for his benefit.

7. Bankers being a MLM company: Not true. Period.

8. Where are the veteran agents when you come in for an interview?: They are out in the field working. If the office is always full of agents, that must not be a very successful branch, as you don't make money sitting behind a desk; you make money being in front of prospects.

9. It is a tough business. I won't sugar coat that all. Making phone calls is not easy. Learning how to present and close is not easy. There is a ton of stuff to learn in this business. It takes a lot of hard work, long hours, and studying on your own to be really successful. Some agents won't make it because they don't work. Some may not like the way the branch operates and leave because of that. It goes both ways.

The bottom line about Bankers is that your experience WILL vary depending on the branch and the branch manager. Not going to sugarcoat that all; there are well-run branches and there are poorly-run branches. There are ethical branch managers and not-so-ethical ones. I happen to work in a good office. Some here seem to have experiences with some of the bad ones.

To the job seeker(s): Would you mind telling me which branch you are interviewing at? Maybe I can give you some advice. You don't even have to give me the city name; the BSO number would be fine if you don't want to reveal your location.

I hope I've covered most of the issues raised in this thread, but I'll be happy to address anything I can that I may have missed, as this thread is pretty long by now. Fire away.

[JHeb]

This is my first post on scam.com...I'm going to a business meeting tomorrow a.m. with BL&C and if I get another interview tomorrow or next week, here is the list of questions I've got the interviewing manager:

Questions for Bankers Life and Casualty

„« How do we get licensed?
„« How many things do we have to get licensed for?
„« Do we pay for the license(s)?
„« How do we get the license(s)?
„« Do we have to pay for background checks/finger printing, etc.?
„« Do we have to pay for BL&C training at any point or is it provided by the company?
„« What are we expected to pay for in Year One and beyond?
„« In reality, how likely is it that I¡¦ll bring home at least $500/wk. (or more) starting in Week 4 after the three weeks of paid training?
„« Do senior agents get the best leads or do all leads go out to everyone equally?
„« Will I ever have to pay for leads?
„« Do I have to reach a certain amount in commissions before leads are free?
„« Are there any other ways of learning of people wanting/needing BL&C¡¦s services besides ¡§leads¡¨??
„« What about the message boards (scam.com, etc.) that have lots of people saying BL&C is a ¡§scam¡¨ or a ¡§scammer company¡¨ who doesn¡¦t care about who they hire in hopes of 5 to 10% of total hires sticking with them and shouldering most of the their costs to get started in the business?
„« If we repeat to customers what we¡¦ve been told by management about BL&C policies, etc. and it turns out to be incorrect/false and we¡¦re brought into a lawsuit by the customer, will BL&C back us or are we on our own?
„« Do we need insurance to sell insurance? Are there any chances of us getting sued as an individual rather than part of BL&C?
„« What things am I responsible for (financially) on an every day basis (or weekly, etc.)?
„« Do we get reimbursed for travel expenses? If yes, how so and how much?
„« Can I have a print out of what the all of the agents in the Tulsa and Oklahoma City offices made in commissions, plus bonuses earned in Year One? If no, why not? Could I receive a print off with names redacted?
„« What percent commission do we receive? What about on renewals?
„« Does BL&C have the right to debit and credit my account as they see fit?
„« Why would they debit?
„« Would I have any knowledge of the debit transaction in advance of the actual transaction?
„« Are there any situations where BL&C could or would w/hold my commission on a case?
„« What is the special account where part of my commission would go for certain expenses?
„« Is this account accessible only to me or is this a general fund for all agents to dip into?
„« How would I know certain agents aren¡¦t getting preferential treatment over me or other agents?
„« Is there a grievance procedure for agents if they feel they¡¦re not getting treated fairly?
„« What is the turnover rate here at BL&C (Tulsa and OKC)?
„« How many agents does the OKC branch have now and how many are they trying to have (total)?
„« What justifies a quarterly bonus, specifically?
„« What justifies the trips to Mexico, etc.?
„« If 10 (or 100) new agents were hired, on average, how many would be left after one year?
„« How does being an ¡§independent contractor¡¨ aka 1099 affect my taxes at the end of the year? Do I need to do anything special to avoid owing the gov¡¦t large amounts??

Thoughts?? Anything I should add or take away??

[JHeb]

Well, had my second iv today, went better than expected...Asked many of the above questions and I get the feel that this office is not shady...Unless I'm being straight up lied to, it appears to be on the good side of things. Go back next WED for the third phase.

[saintlouisan]

Originally Posted by JHeb

This is my first post on scam.com...I'm going to a business meeting tomorrow a.m. with BL&C and if I get another interview tomorrow or next week, here is the list of questions I've got the interviewing manager:

Questions for Bankers Life and Casualty

„« How do we get licensed?
„« How many things do we have to get licensed for?
„« Do we pay for the license(s)?
„« How do we get the license(s)?
„« Do we have to pay for background checks/finger printing, etc.?
„« Do we have to pay for BL&C training at any point or is it provided by the company?
„« What are we expected to pay for in Year One and beyond?
„« In reality, how likely is it that I¡¦ll bring home at least $500/wk. (or more) starting in Week 4 after the three weeks of paid training?
„« Do senior agents get the best leads or do all leads go out to everyone equally?
„« Will I ever have to pay for leads?
„« Do I have to reach a certain amount in commissions before leads are free?
„« Are there any other ways of learning of people wanting/needing BL&C¡¦s services besides ¡§leads¡¨??
„« What about the message boards (scam.com, etc.) that have lots of people saying BL&C is a ¡§scam¡¨ or a ¡§scammer company¡¨ who doesn¡¦t care about who they hire in hopes of 5 to 10% of total hires sticking with them and shouldering most of the their costs to get started in the business?
„« If we repeat to customers what we¡¦ve been told by management about BL&C policies, etc. and it turns out to be incorrect/false and we¡¦re brought into a lawsuit by the customer, will BL&C back us or are we on our own?
„« Do we need insurance to sell insurance? Are there any chances of us getting sued as an individual rather than part of BL&C?
„« What things am I responsible for (financially) on an every day basis (or weekly, etc.)?
„« Do we get reimbursed for travel expenses? If yes, how so and how much?
„« Can I have a print out of what the all of the agents in the Tulsa and Oklahoma City offices made in commissions, plus bonuses earned in Year One? If no, why not? Could I receive a print off with names redacted?
„« What percent commission do we receive? What about on renewals?
„« Does BL&C have the right to debit and credit my account as they see fit?
„« Why would they debit?
„« Would I have any knowledge of the debit transaction in advance of the actual transaction?
„« Are there any situations where BL&C could or would w/hold my commission on a case?
„« What is the special account where part of my commission would go for certain expenses?
„« Is this account accessible only to me or is this a general fund for all agents to dip into?
„« How would I know certain agents aren¡¦t getting preferential treatment over me or other agents?
„« Is there a grievance procedure for agents if they feel they¡¦re not getting treated fairly?
„« What is the turnover rate here at BL&C (Tulsa and OKC)?
„« How many agents does the OKC branch have now and how many are they trying to have (total)?
„« What justifies a quarterly bonus, specifically?
„« What justifies the trips to Mexico, etc.?
„« If 10 (or 100) new agents were hired, on average, how many would be left after one year?
„« How does being an ¡§independent contractor¡¨ aka 1099 affect my taxes at the end of the year? Do I need to do anything special to avoid owing the gov¡¦t large amounts??

Thoughts?? Anything I should add or take away??

I have an interview tomorrow and was encouraged to bring a list of questions...

I will use these questions (which were put together very well from previous concerns in this thread) as I go in for an interview.

Thanks JHeb

[bogie]

Bankers is what we in the industry call an "agent churner". They are constantly hiring touting huge possibiities for making big money but the reality is that only about ten percent of their agents really make much money at all. The others go out and get licensed and are gone in a year out of frustration. Meanwhile the company keeps what business they managed to sell without having to pay renewal commissions. They can't lose. You put out all the money and since you are a 1099 contractor they can let you go at any time by cancelling your agent contract. But more likely you will leave on your own.You can expect to pay for your pre license training, the fingerprint process and the test itself. In california the whole process will cost you roughly three hundred bucks or so for a life agent licensed. That of course assumes that you pass the test the first time. Each retry costs another seventy five smackers. Most states are pretty similar to california although the prices for the schools may vary a little.

Forget bankers. If you want to get into the insurance business, get your life or p and c license and then apply to a real company. And they are not easy to find. I worked in the industry for a couple of years with companies not unlike Bankers until I finally got on with AAA. Now life's good. Finally.

[bogie]

Originally Posted by JHeb

Well, had my second iv today, went better than expected...Asked many of the above questions and I get the feel that this office is not shady...Unless I'm being straight up lied to, it appears to be on the good side of things. Go back next WED for the third phase.

I promise you that you are being lied to.

[bogie]

Originally Posted by JHeb

This is my first post on scam.com...I'm going to a business meeting tomorrow a.m. with BL&C and if I get another interview tomorrow or next week, here is the list of questions I've got the interviewing manager:

Questions for Bankers Life and Casualty

Here are the answers that I think you will get:

„« How do we get licensed?

You will be responsible for getting licensed and footing the bill.

„« How many things do we have to get licensed for?

For bankers you will need a life insurance license unless you are selling variable annuities. Then you will also need a securities license. You pay for that too.

„« Do we pay for the license(s)?

You pay the school, the fingerprint check and the test itself. You will have to renew every two years.

„« How do we get the license(s)?

You'll attend 52 hours of training by an approved school for each license. Once you have a completion certificat you will go to the local department of insurance, pay your fees, get fingerprinted and take your test.
„«

Do we have to pay for background checks/finger printing,

Absolutely.

„« Do we have to pay for BL&C training at any point or is it provided by the company?

You probably won't have to pay for that.

„« What are we expected to pay for in Year One and beyond?

Besides renewing your license every two years you will pay all of your expenses.

„« In reality, how likely is it that I¡¦ll bring home at least $500/wk. (or more) starting in Week 4 after the three weeks of paid training?

Five large a week is not unreasonable to expect. But you'll pay all of your expenses out of that. But why work for five hundred a week using your own car and gas when you could make that much working at starbucks?

„« Do senior agents get the best leads or do all leads go out to everyone equally?

They go to whoever is producing. If you're not closing sales they are not going to keep burning up leads with you. You then could find yourself paying for your leads.

„« Will I ever have to pay for leads?

Likely.

„« Do I have to reach a certain amount in commissions before leads are free?

Every company is different but they all have rules about leads.

„« Are there any other ways of learning of people wanting/needing BL&C¡¦s services besides ¡§leads¡¨??

Yes. You will be expected to prospect on your own. Including cold calling.

„« What about the message boards (scam.com, etc.) that have lots of people saying BL&C is a ¡§scam¡¨ or a ¡§scammer company¡¨ who doesn¡¦t care about who they hire in hopes of 5 to 10% of total hires sticking with them and shouldering most of the their costs to get started in the business?

Hopefully by now you can make your own decision about them being a scam.

„« If we repeat to customers what we¡¦ve been told by management about BL&C policies, etc. and it turns out to be incorrect/false and we¡¦re brought into a lawsuit by the customer, will BL&C back us or are we on our own?

That depends. Like any lawsuit, if the claimant can convince a jury of liability, then that party is liable and will be punnished. That could be the company, or you, or both. There's a cost I forgot about because it's taken care of for me by AAA. But you'll want to purchase errors and omissions insurance. For a new agent that's probably about fifty bucks a month for a million dollars.

„« Do we need insurance to sell insurance? Are there any chances of us getting sued as an individual rather than part of BL&C?

You don't need E and O insurance by law but don't go into business without it. Keep in mind that nothing stops anybody from suing anybody else for anything. And you are not part of the company. You are and independent agent. If you are determined liable in court, you will pay weather or not the company is also found liable.

„« What things am I responsible for (financially) on an every day basis (or weekly, etc.)?

Besides your expenses, you will have a feduciary responsibility with your customer's money that you collect. Never ever let this money be mixed with your personal funds such as using the same bank account for both.

„« Do we get reimbursed for travel expenses? If yes, how so and how much?

We do at AAA. Very generously. But with Bankers the hook's on you.
„«

Can I have a print out of what the all of the agents in the Tulsa and Oklahoma City offices made in commissions, plus bonuses earned in Year One? If no, why not? Could I receive a print off with names redacted?

Companies often make this information available. It's a motivation to get everybody competing. They'll have an annual trip to somewhere if you meat certain goals so everybody checks often to see where they and others stand.
„«

What percent commission do we receive? What about on renewals?

Commissiions vary with the product and from company to company. As do renewals but you will likely have to be vested for ten years or more to recieve renewals after you leave the company.
„«

Does BL&C have the right to debit and credit my account as they see fit?

Your agent contract will include a loan agreement. In essence, they will pay (loan) you advanced commissions based on the annual premium. They are really loaning you money for commissions on premiums that the client has not paid. Unless of couurse they pay the entire year's premium up front which is rare. If a policy cancels prior to the end of that year, you will recieve a chargeback for the unearned premium commission that was paid to you. That will likely come out of your paycheck.
„«

Why would they debit?
„« Would I have any knowledge of the debit transaction in advance of the actual transaction?

It's unlikely that they will require you to open an account that they can debit.

„« Are there any situations where BL&C could or would w/hold my commission on a case?

Any situations? I suppose so. That will depend on their policies but for the most part if you've done everything correctly during the sale you'll probably get paid on time. But much can and does go wrong. Especially when you're new.
„«

What is the special account where part of my commission would go for certain expenses?
„« Is this account accessible only to me or is this a general fund for all agents to dip into?

If this is a Bankers policy I don't know about it.

„« How would I know certain agents aren¡¦t getting preferential treatment over me or other agents?

You won't. You can expect certain agents to get preferential treatment. If you are producing, you'll likely be happy about the way you are treated. But if you're burning up leads without closing sales, they'll see that the good leads go to closers. And you then will not be enjoying life.

„« Is there a grievance procedure for agents if they feel they¡¦re not getting treated fairly?

Right. Remember, you'll be an independent contractor, not an employee.

„« What is the turnover rate here at BL&C (Tulsa and OKC)?

Most companies like Bankers expect in excess of 100% each year. That's why they're allways hiring.

„« How many agents does the OKC branch have now and how many are they trying to have (total)?

Sorry. I'm in california.

„« What justifies a quarterly bonus, specifically?

I'm not that familiar with bankers but bonuses are typically paid by the amount of annual life premium (ALP) you produce.
„«

What justifies the trips to Mexico, etc.?

The same thing. It's all about the ALP.

„« If 10 (or 100) new agents were hired, on average, how many would be left after one year?

Except for the rare exception, the ten percent of the agents that were there and producing when you got there will be there when you leave. The rest of you will be gone. Again, thier turnover is horrendous but they've got pleanty chomping at the bit to replace you. They are really good at recruiting.

„« How does being an ¡§independent contractor¡¨ aka 1099 affect my taxes at the end of the year? Do I need to do anything special to avoid owing the gov¡¦t large amounts??

Sure. Don't make a large income. Just kidding but taxes are taxes. If you are used to working as a W2 employee you are in for quite an eye opener. Besides the taxes that you normally pay, an independent contract, since he is really in business for himself, will pay not only the employee's portion of the tax but the employers portion as well. This is called self employment tax that you are likely used to your employer paying as the employer tax. Since you are your own employer you are the only one that can pay the tax. You'll be required to file a quarterly return and since no taxes have been withheld, be ready to write the government, federal and state, a check.

Thoughts?? Anything I should add or take away??

An insurance carreer can be both fullfilling and rewarding. If you always keep the client's needs in mind and forget about what brings the most commissions you can do well with a reputable company. I've worked for some of the worst and now I work for one of the best. I am a W2 employee now with all of the many benifits that AAA offers it's employees. If you can afford to spend a couple of years with companies like bankers, go ahead. I think you'll find out that most of what I've said here will be pretty accurate. But at least you will have some experience when you apply to one of the good companies.

Good luck but be ready to duck.

[believeinhim]

Its both frustrating and educational to read the above posts. Bankers Life has been around 128 years now. It is hard work and requires discipline to become a successful agent with ANY insurance company. The failure rate in insurance sales, indeed in most sales, is extremely high. Some take the negativity too personally, some lack self-discipline, some can't relate to people well, some lack spousal encouragement, etc., etc. There is no shame in not succeeding; there is great reward in succeeding.

Though I've worked for other insurance companies, I work with Bankers Life now. We have excellent veteran agents and we have some excellent 'new' -less than 2 years - agents. I don't know of a single agent who made less than $30,000 their first year and stayed. I netted (after taxes and expenses) over $50k and was not a superstar. Most make it or not in the first few months. Our branch management works very hard to be sure that anyone coming in understands the difficulties and has a good chance of success. They are brutally honest about what it costs in time, money and ****** to become a successful agent. This is a business and it is a business you can begin without a huge financial outlay and debt - starting your own coffee shop costs more! If you are looking for paid travel expenses, paid vacation, etc., you should not go into business for yourself, with Bankers or any other company/product.

Our office stresses the need to keep the client's needs first. There is nothing tougher than setting appointments and dragging reluctant folks down the thought processes of how they will deal with their future health and financial risks. There are few greater rewards than being able to reassure a client that she need not worry about her husband's sudden, extreme, medical expenses, they will be paid in full. It is rewarding to be able to reassure a client that their money is safe no matter how big a dip the S&P or DJIA took, to see a couple be able to stay together in their home because they have sufficient Long-Term-Care/ Home Health insurance in place to prevent spending their own assets and depending on Medicaid, to be able to save a senior on a fixed income $200/month on their insurances or educate them about a benefit they are entitled to but knew nothing about or had been reluctant to pursue - such as VA benefits. I've watched 80 year old clients live in financial peace while Bankers paid the home health aids as they struggled with advanced Alzheimer's disease in their partner. I've delivered welcomed life insurance checks to widows wondering how to pay their expenses with only one income.

Being an agent is hard work, not for the faint-hearted or those in debt before they start. It is not for those who can't budget. Some commission checks are very low, some very high, some charge backs occur - when someone cancels or dies - etc. so it is good to build a reserve so you can enjoy the surplus when it is there and be comfortable when it is not. Being a good insurance agent is rewarding both financially and emotionally. It allows you, once you've established your business, to go see your son's school play in the middle of the day, or take your child to the orthodontist or travel to see family or friends or play golf mid-week. You don't work weekends or nights unless you choose to. You aren't on-call 7 days a week like my well-educated engineer employed W-2 receiving husband.

When I started, I asked the 25+ year office staff what made so many people fail in this business. She responded, "They don't work it like a job." I took her seriously and work my career.

Think hard, evaluate yourself honestly, ask lots of questions to be sure you understand. If you choose to pursue a career in insurance, may you always put the client first and best wishes from the Northwest.

And no matter what you decide, pay off all your debt and start saving for your retirement NOW. I meet with 600-1000 seniors a year and trust me, for the most part, you reap what you sow.

[JHeb]

How hard is it to get on with AAA? Do they mainly want experienced agents who are already licensed or what? Any help?????

[factsnxs]

Originally Posted by mymestupworld

undefinedundefined

I just did a bunch of things through monster.com looking for a real job/ career & I was contacted by the company "Bankers Life"

Can anyone tell me if this a job that is/isn't a scam & will pay you money in 1-7 days???? :rolleyes:


thank you

I am going to tell you a story. Bankers Life & Casualty is for real. However, in my opinion, you do not want to pursue a career with them. I went through the same process you did. I was looking for a career change that would possibly improve my quality of life. I was sooooo committed to this company, the products, the entire plan. I was broke after six months. I had invested all my savings, determined to be successful. I started making money after three months when I dumped my so-called trainer. My trainer was interested in making money from my hard work. This trainer had worked there two weeks longer than me.

Bankers Life & Casualty has some good products. The products are limited, if you want to be successful and sleep at night knowing you fulfilled your clients needs by putting them in the product that best fits their needs. Diversify,
Get your lisence
Study Insurance products online
Contract with the the companies
Order Supplies

You can be successful. Don't be fooled by the cons that run some of these local branches. They are salesmen, they know how to sell their goods.

[Abe]

People,
I DO work for Bankers Life and it is the best company I have ever worked for. Turnover is high, as it is with ANY fully commissioned job or for that matter nearly any 1099/IC position. The reason the interview process runs in multiple stages is to allow for all the questions about and detail regarding the system. It is NOT MLM and in many cases top agents make more than the managers, which is impossible in a pyramid scheme.

Managers pay more of their income into the office for leads of agents than agents do; it's cost sharing. The vast majority of our leads are free to agents and even the ones that are not "paying into" the lead program are provided with leads. But just like in any business-minded organization, more successful agents are given more leads. All the rest of the overhead is paid by the company. We do not debit the bank accounts of agents. They are given commission advances for policies that have not even issued yet in order to assist the transition to fully commissioned sales. If the client cancels or does not qualify, that money is owed back. It is not debited from accounts but from future pay checks. A commission advance is still a loan though, and if not earned it needs to be repaid.

The turnover, as I mentioned is very high but almost exclusively in the first 6 months. The people that stick through the tough times earn very good incomes. At Bankers an individual has 5 times the chance of making a 6 figure income than the national average. I was one of the "lucky" ones and made $116,000 in my FIRST year. That's obviously quite out of the ordinary but I certainly expect the people who can stick it out for the whole first year to earn 40-60K. Remember though, many of the "averages" used in other posts include the people that quit in their first few months. Because of renewals (which are not paid in almost any other profession), bonuses, and referrals, income should increase pretty rapidly for the first few years.

Bankers is a billion dollar company that has been in business for 128 years. It pays out over $3 million dollars in claims every DAY. It is the largest provider of products/services to people 65 and over. It is the largest health insurance provider for people on Medicare, is one of the top 3 providers of long term care, and has been providing life insurance since its inception. It was ranked by Training Magazine as one of the top 100 training companies in the country. It is one of the few companies that still provides personal service. In short, it is a phenomenal company. The insurance indusrty is one of the most heavily regulated industries in the country and compliance is a big deal. Claiming that this company is a scam is ridiculous. Clearly experiences are going to vary from branch to branch and manager to manager. There are some subpar managers out there and they get replaced when discovered. Obviously lying to anyone is not condoned and should be reported. We encourage tough interviews and questions as well as have prospective hires read the contract and talk to existing agents so that they know what they are signing up for.

If the job were easy, there would not be 6 and 7 figure income potential; people would be getting paid a small hourly/yearly wage. We begin and conclude each 1st interview with the statement "this career is not for everybody." We have, however, had people from various ethnic, religious, socio-economic, educational, vocational, etc. backgrounds earn very good livings. Not everyone can make it rich, but that is the case everywhere (except professional athletics). I don't think people that don't or can't make it are less intelligent or bad people. However, the system works, it's just high risk/high reward. I would prefer that people that choose not to make it work or cannot make it work would refrain from bad mouthing and slandering a company that provides great opportunities (not guarantees) to individuals and families.

[bogie]

Originally Posted by JHeb

How hard is it to get on with AAA? Do they mainly want experienced agents who are already licensed or what? Any help?????

AAA is actually a group of twelve corporations located throughout the US. My company is the California State Automobile Association, or CSAA. CSAA covers northern California, Utah and Nevada. Not sure where you live but your AAA affiliate will be who you apply for a job with. It's difficult for me to say how tough or easy it is to get a job with the AAA in your area. I had been a Life agent for about two years when an opening became available here. Now the company is sending me to school for my P and C license and then I'll be moving to another branch to take over all insurance products in that office. I'ts a great company to work for but the commission system is somewhat different than you are likely used to. But they do give you a salary for the first year plus commissions. It's different in each area but my starting salary was 32K plus commisions. Not a bad deal for an insurance company. But you have to produce or you're out.

If you have an interest, go to AAA.com and click on carreers. You can then put in your zip code and see if there is an opening near you.

Good luck.

[JHeb]

Thanks for the info. everyone, good, bad and ugly...This is the type of stuff someone like me needs to hear before jumping into a job like Bankers, etc...Thanks for all of the details bogie, believeinhim, abe and others...I appreciate it!!

[texasqueen]

Here is what happened to me at Bankers Life. I was hired. I already had my life and health license. I went through the training which consisted of telemarking their old leads from 9-5 everyday until I got an appointment. What I found out about how dishonest their methods are. I was calling seniors and telling them that I was calling about about a card they returned. One lady said flat out, your are lying. Then I found out except for a few mail in leads I was expected to telemarket twice a week until I had a certain number of appointments I think it was 18. Basically cold calling . No thanks. I said no and quit.

[benjiman]

HEY!!

i just got called by someone from Bankers Life and Casualty Company today! i have an interview of thursday morning. what should i do? i REALLY REALLY need a better job right now and i want to know if this one is a good choice.....is it? :confused:

[bogie]

Originally Posted by benjiman

HEY!!

i just got called by someone from Bankers Life and Casualty Company today! i have an interview of thursday morning. what should i do? i REALLY REALLY need a better job right now and i want to know if this one is a good choice.....is it? :confused:

When you say you need a job I assume that also means you need to make money for living expenses. If that is the case Bankers will give you the job but you're a long way from meeting any living expense costs. Listen up folks. If you don't already have an insurance license and the training and experience that has prepared you to begin producing right away for a new company, you are months away from making any money at all and years away from making a decent living in the insurance industry. It can be a rewarding carreer but it does'nt happen over night like these idiots will tell you at their employment "interview". Get licensed, get hired, pay your dues, learn everything you can and then you're on your way.